ive heard that you are supposed to apply your leg then hand when asking a horse to go into a frame...but l cant help but ask why?
ive always used my hand and leg at the same time...
ive always thought that its more about lifting the horses back and this is done by preventing some of the horses energy from going back or forward so it goes up and their back lifts and their yeilding to the bit is just a reaction of your aids given to lift the back
but idk if that might help l just thought if u guys knew how l understood it it might help
thanks ;]
greg b: OMG YOU GOT TO TRAIN WITH DAVID O' CONNOR....LUCKY! lol
thats really cool! you must do eventing...right? lol

omg l remember my first ''idol'' was karen o' connor

You use your leg to to get your horse to move up, so it does not pull down on your hands.

u use ur leg to force ur horse/pony into ur hands. thus giving u better control. & making him work into a frame.

well that my view on it. :s

happy new year ! xox

EDIT - u r partly right. ur leg gives the aid causing the horse to lift his back & move forward. ur hand comes in second & stops the energy being lost from the front. u keep ur leg on to stop it being lost from behind. thus keeping him in an outline,working on the bit & moving his hind quarters under him.
you were partly right. leg into hand. thats the way it is. & the easiest l can explain without showing. its easier to show =]

good luck! xox

You push your horse forward with your legs which will in turn push him into your hands, making him round and going in to a frame. However you do have to hold your reins firmly while asking your horse to go forward in order for him to go round.

You need to ride the horse from back to front not from front to back. If u use leg with no hand, then ur horse just goes forward without a frame. But if u use hand with no leg, then u just teach the horse to duck his head. You can not use ur hand to bring the horse is head down & get him to flex at the poll without having the forward motion coming from the hind end or else u will produce false flexion. Therefore, the leg needs to be primary & the hand secondary. You produce energy with the leg & contain it & meter it out with the hand.

EDIT - You have the right idea. If u contain some of the energy from going forward with ur hands, then some of the energy goes up. David O'Connor explained it to me by taking my dressage whip (representing the horse is spine) & bending it. When u bend the whip at the ends, u create potential energy & middle of the whip comes up & the whip shortens lengthwise because it is bent. This is the same effect u want with the horse. Create energy in the back, contain it in the front, the middle comes up, & the horse shortens in the longitudinal direction.

EDIT 2 - Actually, l have had clinics with both Karen & David & l have learned so much each time. Each visit has been a quantum leap in my riding.

l see the confusion. l think if u consider it more as a way of thinking than what actually ends up happening it will seem less confusing. You r maintaining the forward impulsion with ur legs, while capturing that energy on the bit. You r not then sending energy backward from the bit toward ur legs..just holding it from going more forward. The bit, or ur hands, simply resist the forward energy generated by ur legs. Make sense? So, even though u actually end up using ur hands & legs at the same time, u r still riding legs to hands, Because u r still using ur legs to keep the energy moving from the hindquarters toward the front, or toward ur hands (the bit) the back elevates as the forward energy is ''trapped'' between ur legs which r driving the horse forward, & ur hands which force the energy to begin to bring on suspension since it can not go anywhere else but up once it meets resistance from the bit.
In Greg is example, just think of the one hand on the front of the whip being the bit, & it does not move. Now, with the other hand representing ur legs, push that end of the whip toward the fixed end. The energy that bends the whip in the middle is brought forward from the one hand, & trapped by the fixed hand, so the center has nowhere else to go but up.